ArchivesI would like to respond to the article by Hans Washburn in the Nogales International Sept. 8 issue. Washburn responded to an article by Mary Darling and Manfred Cripe that urged people to take a step back from the rowdy protesters and find out the facts about health-care reform before discarding the possibility all together.
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For his proof about Democrats’ zombie-like and obtrusive behavior, he cites that a few left-wingers wore offensive T-shirts and recalls the wild antics of the wild ladies at Code Pink. Washburn, ironically, delves into debunked Internet rumors himself in his attempt to claim the truthful high ground, not least of which are that Rep. Carol Shea Porter was removed from numerous town hall meetings and that Condoleezza Rice was physically threatened by Code Pink protesters. Simply not true in any way. Also, Camille Paglia is not a liberal.
What is true is that the ridiculousness of the right-wing about the health-care debate has taken astronomical proportions, and most of it is based on lies and ignorance. True there are harebrained ignorant people on both sides of the political spectrum, but I ask Washburn to show me a left-wing antic based on a lie that had dominated the 24-hour news cycles for weeks and months, not a Youtube video, but something that has reached the dinner table of most Americans.
What group of ours is as ignorant as the “birthers” who claim that Obama was not born in America despite mountains of proof? Which former vice-presidential candidate of ours has embarrassed themselves as much as Sarah Palin did when she claimed that Obama would put her parents and Down syndrome children in front of a “Death Panel?” Which untidy lady of ours showed the absolute depth of her ignorance by going on national TV to claim that she thought Obama was an Arab? Which large mass of lefties would hold up a sign that says something as foolhardy as, “Keep your government hands off my Medicare,” or “Obama is a Socialist Nazi?”
They simply do not exist because fortunately we don’t have a huge chunk of our base that simply refuses to absorb facts as just part of the greater conspiracy against America. Washburn claims that we are now zombies behind Obama, but the “grassroots” anti-health-care reform is funded by the health-care industry and multi-million-dollar lobby groups, who then go and tell people who would not know any better that this is Socialism, or that this is trying to get government control of health care. You have anti-health-care protesters in the crowds who have no health care! How does that make sense? Only makes sense if you are a zombie.
(Editor’s note: Woolfolk lives in College Station, Texas.)
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Red wrote on Sep 23, 2009 11:57 AM:
As a non-government employee, I pay $120 A WEEK for health insurance for my family. "
Dear Mr. Wilgers wrote on Sep 22, 2009 2:38 PM:
Regarding the death panel argument, I am at a loss for a response. One example (could you please source that)
of medicine being detained from a woman in oregon is not a death panel. A death panel is a board of officials deciding that your life is not worth sustaining and that you should be put to death, at least that is what they are telling the undeducated masses with misspelled signs at the protest. ABSOLUTELY FALSE.
There are plenty of verifyable cases of INSURANCE agencies denying coverage because of preexisting conditions like acne, domestiv violence, pregnancy, and typos which have resulted in deaths due to lack of coverage. The most recent figure in the AP was 12,000 people die every year due to being denied health care. THe only death panels in existence are the insurance agencies as they stand today.
Regarding the illegal immigrants and the amendments, what you are talking about is an amendment to verify citizenship in the case of emergency room visits and emerency medical services (ambulance).
If you want to be the man that denies emergency medical services to dying human beings due to the fact that they are illegal citizens, go right ahead. I would never join you in that and neither would a great majority of Americans.
You cannot be anti death panels and pro denying illegals emergency services. You cannot be both. "
Dear Mr. Patterson wrote on Sep 22, 2009 10:15 AM:
That is the difference between a question and and a conspiracy theory. An inquiry is made of a possible birth in Kenya, the proof of a birth in America comes up, and it is dropped.
The people who are coming out now have all seen the birth certificate (available on the internet), have seed the birth announcements (from 1964) and have heard the testimony of the officials in Hawaii to no avail. This "proof" is only more evidence of a bigger conspiracy. See a nutjob is someone who despite mountains of proof still decides to believe the initial question. None of Hillary's people are still asking the questions
Sorry, still your nutjobs. Any leeway on the vast lies perpetuated on the left which have made the 24 hour news cycles? Anyone? I didn't think so. "
George Wilgers wrote on Sep 22, 2009 9:15 AM:
I agree that the bill says that illegal immigrants are not eligible for services. What concerns me is that several attempts to add an ammendment to require the use of the federal program to verify citizenship to recieve the benefits, but has been soundly defeated by party line votes.
It is nice to see that they are not SUPPOSED to recieve benefits, but with out a way to verify citizenship just how do you actually enforce that provision? "
George Wilgers wrote on Sep 22, 2009 9:05 AM:
I guess we can agree to disagree on the lies as neither of us seems to buy the other's arguments.
Regarding Abortion, I offer the following from the text of the Capps Ammendment to the Health Care Reform Bill:
(3) Coverage under the public health insurance option – The public health insurance option shall provide coverage for services described in paragraph (4)(B). Nothing in this Act shall be construed as preventing the public heath insurance option from providing for or prohibiting coverage of services described in paragraph (4)(A).
(4) Abortion services -
(A) Abortions for which public funding is prohibited – The services described in this subparagraph are abortions for which the expenditure of Federal funds appropriated for the Department of Health and Human Services is not permitted, based on the law as in effect as of the date that is 6 months before the beginning of the plan year involved.
(B) Abortions for which public funding is allowed – The services described in this subparagraph are abortions for which the expenditure of Federal funds appropriated for the Department of Health and Human Services is permitted, based on the law as in effect as of the date that is 6 months before the beginning of the plan year involved.
I do not know about you, but to me this seems to allow public funds to be used for abortion. Now I happen to be pro-abortion, with reasonable limits. However, I am uncomfortable with the FEDERAL government paying for abortions. I sense danger in that.
As for Death Panels, well, there was the lady in Oregon who was told by the State Run Insurance System that they would not pay for the medicines to treat her lung cancer, but would pay for the medicines to commit physician assisted suicide. Does that not sound like a death panel? Any government agency that decides whether or not to cover a persons costs could be considered a Death Panel (so could any insurance panel for that matter). "
J. Patterson wrote on Sep 21, 2009 6:09 PM:
Uh, the heart and soul of the Birthers are disaffected Hillary supporters (see PUMA's). Most are Democrats. They're your nutjobs not ours. "
Dear Mr. Wilgers wrote on Sep 19, 2009 5:12 PM:
911 was an inside job and needs to be reinvestigated.
This was shopped around by a few of our radicals, but it was never a major point of argument in the news cycles, not even Fox news, as a serious policy debate. There were no congressional people arguming the merits of whether or not Bush knew what was happening, there were no lawsuits, there were no marches demanind the proof. This is not the same as the "birther" movement which has DOMINATED the news cycles for weeks, which has been polled as a true statement from approximately 40%-60% of Republicans (depending on the state) and which still resonates with peole today. Congresspersons and respected media debated this topic despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. This did not happen with the 9/11 conspiracy theories.
Only President Bush lied when talking about the intelligence reports dealing with weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
He did lie. He lied about the yellowcake from Nigeria. He knew that it was not backed up by the CIA and he still said it. Plain and clear. This was on the news cycles because it should have been there. A president lying to shore up evidence for a war is big news. He lied, period. No one else made that State of the Union address..
Captialism is evil.
The Pharmecutical and Health Insurance Companies are funding all of the protests against Health Care Reform
No they are not funding ALL of them. FreedomWorks is a lobbyist group which makes tons of money from the health insurance companies. They are the ones who put out the memo to yell and shout at townhall meetings, they funded travel arrangements such as busses and newsletters to supporters, and they are the ones backing these ridiculous tea parties. They are not fundning the private travel of the people to the marches, they are only funding the misleading infomration that gets to these people and gets them riled up.
Really Mr. WIlgers. Are there death panels? No. Are there provisions to fund abortions? No. Are there provisions to fund illegal immigrants? No. But if 40% of the republican party thinks there are, then what is the point of making the correction.
These are examples of outright LIES making the newsrounds which reach uneducated individuals who believe them. That is the point.
And reform does not mean giving insurance to the uninsured, it means bringind down costs as well. Curiously, most of your suggestions are in the house bill.
Lies and ignorance should not be shocked to meet facts and intelligence straight on. We are getting a little tired of the uneducated masses dominating this topic, and I for one will not allow it anymore. "
Huachuca Boy wrote on Sep 18, 2009 12:04 PM:
George Wilgers wrote on Sep 17, 2009 9:34 AM:
911 was an inside job and needs to be reinvestigated.
Only President Bush lied when talking about the intelligence reports dealing with weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
Captialism is evil.
The Pharmecutical and Health Insurance Companies are funding all of the protests against Health Care Reform.
There are 47 Million Americans without health insurance. (Federal Officials admit that up to 12 million or so are in fact illegal immigrants, another 10 to 12 million are people earning $75K a year and choose not to buy insurance, and another 10 million or so are people under 28 years old who also CHOOSE not to buy insurance. Tat means theres somewhere around 10 to 15 million people who WANT health insurance BUT CANNOT AFFORD IT.)
These are some of the lies being perpetuated by big money on the left.
I have personally been against the health reform being proposed by the President and Congress because they are too willing to spend money on the issue without addressing the real problems. (Please tell me where I am getting this funding from as I seem to have NEVER gotten a check.)
Here are the issues as I see them in order of importance
1 - Medical Malpractice Insurance and Lawsuits - This is the #1 driving force in health care costs in this country. The sister of a co-worker who is an MD had to close her independant medical clinic down because she could not longer afford the insurance premiums for malpractice, even though she has never had a claim. Doctors are forced to practice defensive medicine by ordering nearly every test under the sun to try to cover their backsides. On a daily basis you see new advertisements on TV and on the radio adverstising class action lawsuits because of possbile side effect caused by medicines APPROVED by the FDA. Lawyers are succeeding in convincing people that there is no risk to any medical proceedure and that if anything does not go the way they think it should they can sue. THIS MUST BE FIXED, BUT THE PRESIDENT HAS ONLY PAID LIP SERVICE TO IT. He mentioned trying some trials in certian areas of the country for Torte Reform, like President Bush wanted to do. BUT SENATOR OBAMA VOTED AGAINST THAT BILL, along with the majority of other democrats.
2. Federal Law requires that any person that shows up at an Emergecy Room must be treated regardless of thier ability to pay. Many in the Federal Government have PROMISES over the decades to have the Federal Government pick up the tab, espeically in rural and border communities. They have not. Local hospitals spend millions every year treating illegal immigrants who are injured in the desert. These immigrants cannot pay for their health care, and the feds won't. So what happens, those costs get passed on to those patients and insurance companies that CAN pay. Haven't you ever wondered why an asprin at the hospital can cost up to $90 a pill? It is a combination of this mandated care and malpractice insurance.
3. Pharmecuetical companies - On of the problems with the pharmecuetical companies is that it is very expensive to research and develop new drugs and treatments. Once a drug is approved, there is a very small window of time (7 to 10 years) where generic versions of the drug cannot be created. This is primarially to allow the company to reap the benefit of its work. However, since most industriallized nations have price controls on drugs, this essentially means that the AMERICAN PUBLIC picks up the vast majority of the tab for the R&D. Our government should be talking with other countries, like England, Canada, Germany, etc, to see if they would be willing to increase the price limit on new drugs and treatments for the period of time that generics are not allowed to ease the burden of the American People. The Government could also offer tax credits to the pharmecuetical companies for the costs of medicines they give away or discount to Americans who cannot normally afford the medicine. However, it should be noted that there was a case in Oregon of a older woman whose lung cancer returned. The public health insurance option in Oregon refused to pay for the medicine her doctor perscribed because the full treatment could cost as much as $4,000.00, but they were willing to pay for a perscription so she could kill herself. The DRUG COMPANY actually GAVE HER THE MEDICINE FOR FREE.
The whole purpose behind the reform is SUPPOSED TO BE about HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE for people who do not have it. Here are some simple ideas that can fix that:
1. Mandate that all employer provided health insurance extends for one additional calendar month longer than insurance already lasts after an employee leaves employment. I would caveot this by allowing the employer to sever the insurance in the event the employee is being fired for cause (i.e. crimininal behaivor such as harassment, vandalism, stealing, etc that is to be procecuted).
2. Offer tax decuctions/credits for those making less than say $50K as Individuals and $100K as a family of 4 for the cost of health insurance, if they do not have employer provided/sponsered health insurance.
3. Allow health insurance to be take from "pre-tax" dollars, and not count towards a persons income.
4. Since an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, allow people to deduct the costs of a health club/gym membership.
5. Re-establish daily Physical Education for all students K through 12.
6. Allow for greater health insurance compitition by allowing people to shop for insurance across state lines, just like they can for car and homeowners insurance.
7. Allow small businesses to form partnerships to collectively bargin for health insurance coverage for their employees.
All I want my officials to do is try the simpler, cheaper thing first instead of doing a wholesale change of the system. "
Anne wrote on Sep 17, 2009 12:14 AM:
Melisa wrote on Sep 16, 2009 1:16 PM:
Insurance companies and Pharmaceudical companies coming together to write reform is exactly how laws get passed. This is perfectly normal. I find it irrational that anyone would be surprised that Democrats want to spend money on social programs. It is what they stand for and what they promised on the campaign.
What is NOT normal is a "grassroots" movement that is funded by millionaires and big-insurance and pharma. This is not grassroots, this is astroturf and that is what the article is about.
The outrage is not from the people about health care, it is from the corporations who are getting people who already oppose Obama for whatever reason (but really the race issue is taking center stage in this) and riling them up.
This breaks up the process, and that is what they want.
I am all about grassroots, but don't accuse me of being a zombie when your grassroots movement is astroturf. If you do, prepare to get discredited and called ignorant. I mean you as in the abstract you, not you personally.
Do YOU have any examples of this on from the left? Some outright lie that is perpetuated from big money to the common Joe to where the commom Democrat would vote agains their owen best interest? Because I can't think of any. Not one. "
Loyal Democrat wrote on Sep 16, 2009 12:57 PM:
Thank You "
A Government Employee wrote on Sep 16, 2009 12:41 PM:
My Health Care is not free. I am paying more than $170 a month for my insurance coverage. "
George Wilgers wrote on Sep 16, 2009 12:39 PM:
So My question is "Does that mean the President, Speaker Pelosi, and other prominent Democrats are least MISLEADING everyone, if not lying to everyone?" AND if they are willing to play loose with the facts when talking to the American People on this issue, how can we trust them on the rest? "
Another one wrote on Sep 16, 2009 10:31 AM:
Maria Bourgeois wrote on Sep 15, 2009 5:31 PM:
Daniel wrote on Sep 15, 2009 3:30 PM:
It's all fun and games until someone gets sick. "
Wow- wrote on Sep 15, 2009 2:35 PM:
George Wilgers wrote on Sep 15, 2009 10:41 AM:
That does not sound like they are "funding" the grass roots campaign. If they are, I want to know where the heck is my CHECK?!? "