ramrod wrote on Feb 11, 2010 1:44 PM:

" Wow, all that animosity over answering a question. I find it very interesting that a question was asked, in a harsh and condencending tone, to Robert and Linda, and when given a specific answer, one is attacked. An "angry conspiracy theorist", "your admiring", "you mentioned the pledge", "proof that he was born in Kenya", "Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, Castro, and Pinochet", "Iraq, Afganistan", "Vietnam", "deadly forced march of the Cherokees", "concentration camps that imprisoned US citizens of Japanese decent", "evil chapters of American history", "In God we Trust", "Any scoundrel can do that" (regarding American flag lapel pin), and the most hypocritical of all - "it amuses me when posters attack other posters by speculating what motivates them", all said by vecino and missmel. WOW! What these things have to do with the question at hand is ludicrous. I once again state that I answered his question of "when, where how", with no opinion or desire other than to point out it has happened. Then as most Americans, when "attacked" by others, I defended my self from those who appear to prefer tyranny over liberty of expression, or accepting fact, or willing to understand (and appreciate) that there are others who don't share their opinions. Yet they are the one's speculating as to other people's views and beliefs, and even make things up and puts words in my mouth. Some people call that lying. It's seems like you are very angry about things that most Americans have had nothing to do with. I love the differing views our great Country has to offer, but despise the gutter running, back handed, bottom feeding, and down right lying that partisianship has brought upon some people.
Getting back to the orginal question at hand, I guess it boils down to values, the value you place on our history, flag, pledge, anthem or what ever else is part of what makes the USA the great Nation that it is, and always has been. Me, I will always look upon our Nation for all the great things it represents, never to forget our mistakes. Others would rather thrash it, always looking back, and never looking at what is good, being divisive and purely nasty. Lastly, I do feel very strongly about protectiong our flag, honor, and customs. I have a very close family member that was a prisoner of Hitler and the Na zi's for 2 years during WWII. He and other American prisoners had no access to American flags, which were strictly prohibited. So, they drew their own, even at the chance of being caught and punished by the German guards, hiding them when necessary, and diplaying them by their bunks because of the great faith and respect for their country. All at the risk of being caught and punished by the Germans and put into solitary confinement and even more limited food rations. I guess you really never know how sacred something can be to someone until liberties are taken from you. "




George Wilgers wrote on Feb 10, 2010 9:03 AM:

" Before McCarthy:

"I Pledge Allegience to the United States of American and to the nation for which it stands, one nation, under the flag, with liberty and justice for all."

Because of McCarthy's self aggrandizing witch hunt for communist it was changed to under God, because no "atheist communist" would be willing to say god. That was also one of the driving forces in 1956 for the passage of a resolution by congress declairing "In God We Trust" to be the national motto.

Personally I do not believe the government had the proper authority under the consitution to do this, but it was done.

Turning to the issue at hand, the display of respect during the national anthem by citizens is not legislated. It is up to each individual to determin how they pay their resepct. Some stand with their hand over thier heart, some with their hands by there sides, and some salute (even if they are not in uniform). If President Obama wishes to stand at attention with his hands by his side, who cares? That does not matter. If he turned his back on the flag, and started to pick his nose or engage in other inappropriate public behavior, then it might be an issue.

However, I would agree that regardless of how you show respect, you should do so without holding a coverstation. "




Missmel wrote on Feb 9, 2010 11:24 AM:

" Oh Ramrod-

You are a very angry conspiracy theorist.

Here is the truth:

President Obama was taught by his grandfather to put his hands to his sides when the National Anthem was being performed or played. His father was a war veteran and that explanation is good enough for me.

I do the same thing. I quitely sing along and put my hands to the side. So what?

And you posting that horrifying link to a you tube video questioning whether the President of the United States was born in America puts you on the intellectual low of the Tea Party protesters and Sarah Palin,

Seriously, there are plenty of things to disagree with concerning the President. You all don't have to emabarass yourselves, you and the writers of this letter, by delving into consipiracy theories. Debunked ones at that.

Tsk Tsk "




ramrod wrote on Feb 8, 2010 3:20 PM:

" Hey Vecino, one more thing, I keep reading all these opinions over and over, and still can't find where I or anyone else "mentioned the pledge". If you can't with with truth, then you make it up? Or are you putting those words in my mouth? Or maybe you are confused with an attack on someone else? Wow, your ranting about all things wrong is clouding your ability to be rational. The only thing you didn't touch on was Darwin and evolution....... "




ramrod wrote on Feb 8, 2010 11:31 AM:

" Hector, according to the article, there was another flag behind the seating that the candidates were looking at. Vecino asked for the "when, where, how". That was the "when, where, how", that's all. Like the saying goes, "if you don't like the answer, then don't ask the question". Even if I don't agree with someone, I still respect their freedom to voice their opinion. That's what makes our society so great. Doesn't seem like Vecino thinks that way. "




ramrod wrote on Feb 8, 2010 11:25 AM:

" Vecino, you were the one that asked for the "when? where? how?" If you don't like the answer then don't ask. And saying I "admired" the fact everyone else did, you are so wrong and ignorant. And be careful, very careful, with whom you bring up comparisions with the likes of Hitler. I have very close family that was imprisoned for 2 years by Hitler and the Na zi's, who fought them for our freedom, for whiners like you to be able to attack the free thinking individuals of our great country. And if I may speculate like you do, I doubt you have family members that have paid the ultimate sacrifice, or close to it, in the fight for the freedoms we enjoy in this country. If you had, you would not bring up such rethoric. I RESPECT those whose show honor to our flag and National Anthem. If you ask a question, and don't like the answer, please don' t divert by assuming you know what the other side is thinking, because you are very wrong. You are pathetic, look who is attacking others for their view points. You are a obvious hypocrite. How you can conjure up such an answer to direct facts shows your true colors (or lack of). "




Hector Arevalo Jr wrote on Feb 6, 2010 4:07 PM:

" I agree with the first part that people should be more respectful and silent during the National Anthem. However, the exaggeration of Barack Obama not putting his hand over his heart during the National Anthem at a "steak fry" in Iowa is a weak attempt to divert attention. It would be a different story if he never placed his hand over his heart during the National Anthem but this is not the case.

@Ramrod
According to Title 36 you cited, all three candidates were violating the code since they all had their backs to the flag. "




Vecino wrote on Feb 5, 2010 7:41 AM:

" "During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart."

Note the word "should," Ramrod. It's not mandated by law. (Let's watch the national anthem during the SuperBowl, shall we? Maybe I'm unobservant, but at events like this, I've seen very few that follow this "optional" protocol.)

As to why Obama didn't is pure speculation. Certainly it isn't "proof that he was born in Kenya," as the ludicrous title of the video asserts.

I'm uncomfortable with your admiring the fact that "everyone else did." To me, conformity is un-American, but not to those of our fellow citizens with authoritarian mind-sets. Like those unfortunates who lived or live under Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, Castro, and Pinochet to mention a few.

The flag is a symbol, nothing more, nothing less. I respect it, but I am also uncomfortable when I see its being abused when flying in front of the US Stock Exchange and banks, giving the impression that their recent pure thievery is all-American. I don't like seeing it flying in Iraq and Afghanistan, either - not to forget Vietnam. Or flying over the deadly forced march of the Cherokees or over the concentration camps that imprisoned US citizens who happened to be Japanese. To me, those evil chapters of American history are the real abuses of what the flag truly symbolizes.

You mentioned the pledge. When I say it, I omit the phrase, "Under God." It's my silent protest that US history contains far too many dubious and evil actions that disprove the fatuous idea that they were done with God's approval.

I'm sure you support my right to do that as the American patriot you clearly are.

I feel the same about the slogan, "In God we trust." Yeah? Prove it.

And as for wearing a flag pin in one's lapel? Wearing one or not proves nothing. Any scoundrel can do that. I agree with Obama.

(Pick your most despised politician, Ramrod. Tell me, is your opinion changed if he or she is wearing a flag pin?)

As Samuel Johnson wrote: "Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels."

Finally, it amuses me when posters "attack" other posters by speculating what motivates them. Sorry, but it seems so "6th graderish."

Well, I'm about as far away from being "partisan" as anyone could possibly be.

I think for myself.

“There is nothing more sacred than the integrity of your own mind” - Ralph Waldo Emerson. "




ramrod wrote on Feb 4, 2010 10:01 AM:

" September 16, 2007 in Indianola, IA. Photo published in Time magazine. Obama was the only person to NOT hold his hand over his heart during the National Anthem. All the other people on the stage with him did so. Title 36 of the U.S. Flag code says proper protocol is that a civilian should face the flag and place his right hand over his heart during the playing of the National Anthem. You can see for your self at the folloewing link: youtube.com/watch?v=hU9iCANi02o.
Also, after 9-11, he said to ABC news in an interview that he would no longer wear a flag pin on his lapel because that that does show patriotism. Robert and Linda, you are right and Vecino is blinded by partisianship. "




Rio Rico Knight wrote on Feb 4, 2010 5:25 AM:

" With all due respect to Mr. Wilczewski and the Jones' , there are different ways of showing respect to the flag and the national anthem.
When I see the Stunt and cheer team, Poms and Flags do a choreographed routine during the playing of the national anthem, I see young people engaged, focused and showing their love and respect by doing precisely what they do.
More important than both the flag and the anthem is our constitution, which gives us the freedom of speech and expression that allows for such a display; the fact that they do it with respect and a focus is just a different way of patriotism.
Please don't waste your time trying to impose your views on the new generation, pick your battles. It's fine to complain about work ethic, respect, too much time on video games or online, but I respectfully disagree that there is something wrong with the way they show their patriotism during the anthem. "




Vecino wrote on Feb 2, 2010 1:38 PM:

" Dear Robert and Linda Scott,

Please document your shocking claim that President Barack Obama showed no respect for the national anthem or our beloved flag of the United States of America?

When? Where? How?

Otherwise, your excellent, heartfelt letter will become another tiresome, sour, and false political smear.

Thank you. "

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